иностранный язык

[http://users.livejournal.com/_delly_/]

Дорогое сообщество,

Во-первых, спасибо большое всем за советы по поводу парков и пляжей в Северной Вирджинии: мы составили себе большой список на будущее :) А теперь у меня новый вопрос, не ограниченный географией.

Дочка в школе в 1-ом и 2-ом классе учила испанский. Учили их плохо. Такое ощущение, что они просто заучивали списки слов типа "цвета" и "названия одежды", и вставляли их в английские предложения... На выходе через два года обучения ребенок не в состоянии рассказать о себе, семье, хобби, ну хоть что-нибудь... В общем, только слова учили, а до предложений не дошли. Сейчас мы переехали и в новой школе иностранного языка нет. Хотим искать репетитора. Возникает вопрос: а продолжать ли испанский, или плюнуть и начать что-то другое с чистого листа? У дочки за эти два года на само слово "испанский" выработалась аллергия. Учительница ей не нравилась, и она говорит, что учить его не хочет.

Я думаю в принципе про то, какой язык будет ребенку нужнее по жизни. Так чтобы пользоваться, а не ради того, чтобы излучать образованность. Вроде испанский и китайский в перспективе будут тут самые востребованные, как думаете? В пользу первого еще - Мексика и Доминикана рядом :) Дочка хочет французский (ей по-моему просто слово нравится :), Монреаль, конечно, тоже недалеко, но мне как-то не очевидна перспективность небольшого европейского языка...

В общем, давайте соображениями поделимся. И если есть советы о том, как лучше искать репетитора, тоже с удовольствием выслушаю.

Comments

[zvuv.livejournal.com]

It is highly unlikely that with a tutor, your daughter can learn enough Mandarin Chinese for it to be useful (I'm telling you this from personal experience). A language with a Latin alphabet is probably a more realistic option. Although, really, making use of a language learned with a tutor, is pretty much impossible. Which doesn't mean she shouldn't be learning. Learning foreign languages is great for overall brain development, etc., and it could certainly give her a leg up if she ever finds herself among its native speakers.

I studied Spanish in high school and college, and it overall didn't turn out to be particularly useful (within the past year, it has helped when communicating with resort staff in Mexico, and with painters/floor guys doing renovations in our house). Spanish is easier to learn than French (I've tried both), but wanting to learn a language is considered more important, as motivation is key. There's also Italian, which is close to Spanish and isn't difficult to pronounce. It's not really "useful," but fun.

Alternatively, if your daughter has a hobby or interest that may somehow be connected to a foreign language (opera/Italian, for example), I'd focus on that.

Hope this helps, and sorry for the English, I haven't written in Russian in years. :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_delly_/]

Расскажите, если не трудно, про ваш опыт с китайским. Очень любопытно.

По-моему, занятия один на один, как раз должны давать гораздо больше результата, и пары раз в неделю должно хватить, чтобы через несколько месяцев заговорить. Если, конечно, преподавателя найти хорошего. Я вот думаю, как бы ее с испанским перемотивировать. Все-таки какая-то база есть. Жалко с нуля.

[zvuv.livejournal.com]

My husband speaks Chinese. We've been trying to raise our kids trilingual, but the only thing that works, really, is when family come to visit, and there's actual need to switch to Russian or Chinese. HOWEVER, the gains disappear shortly after the family members leave.

With Chinese, there are two major hurdles: learning the four tones (each syllable comes in four tonal varieties, it's not easy to be able to replicate them and to hear the differences when other people speak) and the writing system (1,000 characters are needed just for very basic reading comprehension). I should say here that if calligraphy or drawing is an interest, your daughter might be interested in learning the characters, but it's still a very labor-intensive process, and it takes a lot of practice. Without the constant practice, you quickly lose what you've gained. (I did.)

I recently listened to this podcast, which had a lot of helpful info on learning foreign languages, and really jived with my personal experiences: http://www.wnyc.org/story/please-explain-how-we-learn-foreign-language/

[palena.livejournal.com]

А расскажите пожалуйста как вы учили китайский? Письменный и устный или только письменный? С какими-то пособиями или только с мужем? Я тоже хочу выучить китайский (устно хотя бы) и приспособить бойфренда (он говорит на китайском) под это дело. Он хочет учить испанский вместе, но он уже год только хочет, к тому же у него это будет четвертый язык, а у меня полтора всего и это не честно.

[zvuv.livejournal.com]

i took 1.5 semesters at the Harvard Extension School and 3.5 semesters at NYC Continuing Ed. (really recommend the former if you happen to be in Boston, although it was back in 2003. do not really recommend the latter, it was OK. mostly you need self-motivation and time.)

my husband was pretty much useless: not into languages, did not really care whether I learned it or not, could not understand my pronunciation. :) your experience might be different. I once had a boyfriend who was teaching me Turkish just for fun, and he got a kick out of it...

I started out learning both written/spoken Mandarin, then got lazy and just did spoken, but at a certain point you can't get by on pinyin anymore, so it really hampered me and I stopped taking classes.

Then, once our daughter was born, I started hearing my husband speak to her in Chinese, and at this point I pretty much understand what he tells her and what she says back, but I don't participate in Chinese (when I do say something, my kids look at me weird, but anyway, I try to speak Russian with them and think it would be really weird for me to be using Chinese with them). I've also had a bunch of practice speaking to my in-laws when they come to visit (not often, but for months at a time, yippee!).

My husband tried to learn Spanish a while ago (for fun), but couldn't manage. But, again, he's numerically inclined, not good at languages, Chinese/English were his biggest challenges in school.

What's your boyfriend's third language? Does he speak Russian?

Long story short: I recommend a structured class, then getting your boyfriend to help with homework, etc. The more class hours, the better. If you can fit in the time, do the characters (these days you choose whether you want to learn simplified or traditional). Being around Chinese speakers who refuse to switch to English might also help (if you can get past the frustration).

[palena.livejournal.com]

Thank you for detailed answer. My BF's other language is Hungarian, he doesn't speak Russian. He is very proud of his pronunciation (sometimes he comments that someone speaks Mandarin like a peasant:))) and he doesn't mind teaching me. I was thinking about getting a book or may be sign up for an online course. Do you recommend taking an actual class? I am in New York and NYU school of professional studies looks expensive ($900 for 24 lessons) compared to online course/books from torrents:)

[zvuv.livejournal.com]

Then how about a Russian-Mandarin exchange? :) Although, honestly, do you really want to spend so much time learning languages together?

If you're very self-motivated, then I suppose anything will work. For me taking a class provided essential structure. The flipside is you can't pick the topics to focus on.

In NY I think there are several other options besides NYU. Yelp has this: http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Mandarin+Classes&find_loc=New+York%2C+NY.

[palena.livejournal.com]

He is not really interested in Russian and I would prefer to keep my conversations with my mom and girlfriends private:)

We live together and spend all our free time together but in a very unproductive way:) so I thought learning language would make our time more useful and enjoyable for me.

[zvuv.livejournal.com]

LOL. Is being a couple meant to be productive? :)

In any case, good luck!